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A few weeks ago I posted Light Rail Revisited. If you didn't see it click on the link and be sure to read the COMMENTS.
The PSTA has sent the County Commission a recommendation to include a ballot initiative to add 1 percent to Pinellas County sales tax for transportation.
On the surface, the PSTA makes the argument that the bus system will have a budget shortfall of $8 Million in 2016 and needs the additional revenue, but the ballet initiative would also allow the sales tax revenue to be used for Light Rail. The commenters in the Light Rail Revisited Post bring up a lot of excellent points. Check them out.
My guess is the light rail people will quickly grab the lion's share of the money.
In the last day or so we have seen how HART (Hillsborough Area Rapid Transit) and PSTA (Pinellas Sun Coast Transit Authority) are tap dancing around a state order that they merge to reduce duplication and save some money.
Protecting the fiefdoms seems to be the issue and it is also the problem.
Take TBRTA(Tampa Bay Regional Transit Authority) for example. Over the last 5 years or so I have been to probably 10 presentations from TBARTA, each one presented by some high paid consulting firm, and TBARTA has yet to really produce anything practical.
Public Transportation in the Bay area could be the poster child for government boondoggle.
Before we, the taxpayers, agree to provide an unending flow of sales tax revenue to be used by people who have, to this point, produced less than stellar results and fund those who would cut a swath through the middle of the State's most densely populated county so some politicians can stand in front of an empty train and proudly claim success, we better think a bit.
Raising the sales tax to 8% can't be that good for tourism, remember the goose and the golden eggs.
Almost all agree a sales tax is a regressive tax, but the public transportation people would encourage your yes vote to a sales tax to support them while adding a heavier tax burden to those they say they wish to serve.
The light rail people, like flock of vultures, are trying to ride into the sales tax revenue stream on the fears the bus system will collapse without the tax.
All of this could be a ballot issue in 2014. The Pinellas County Commission should either receive and file the sales tax request or better yet send it back to the PSTA and ask them for a proposal that deals with the bus system only. And if PSTA is really in the light rail camp a separate proposal for light rail.
Hillsborough County voted down a sales tax proposal for light rail, Pinellas voters would be wise to follow suit should the issue in its present from make it to the ballot.
e-mail Doc at: dr.webb@verizon.net, or send me a Facebook Friend request.
sparky
11:12 am on Wednesday, January 30, 2013
What are tourists paying in sales tax at home? I bet it's at least 8 percent and maybe more. The room tax is where tourists are hit with double digits everywhere they stay. The question is what do we need a tax increase for besides transportation since we might need that extra penny for other services. Could they do with a half cent instead?
Light Rail is a need for the future. Swallow hard and do it now! We are a suburban city and county. The county is 90%+ built out residentially and traffic in St. Pete is still manageable - just hit Dale Mabry at rush hour and you will be thankful you live in st. Pete. It will not last without mass transit.
sparky
10:43 pm on Tuesday, March 26, 2013
How many people make vacation decisions based upon sales tax? None. Room taxes almost everywhere I go are over 10% and easily 14%.
Yep we need light rail now for the future.
Rider
11:12 am on Wednesday, January 30, 2013
Considering that so many buses are virtually empty so many times and the transpo planners reject any plans to install and try a rapid transit bus from Clearwater to St Pete (we have just paid mega bucks to upgrade US19 and one can avoid the lights at the intersections now)....and the model for light rail is the boondoggle TriRail in South Florida which is poorly planned and executed......and there is no support, whatsoever for a municipal water taxi (which is considerably less expensive than a train)....with all these factors, this fan of urban rail has to agree with Doc Webb. The transpo planners are not practical and they may be thinking that a light rail line to Clearwater will keep the Rays in Pinellas. Good luck on that one, will probably not influence the Rays at all.
Jack Sprat
11:22 am on Wednesday, January 30, 2013
This says it all:
"Hillsborough County voted down a sales tax proposal for light rail, Pinellas voters would be wise to follow suit should the issue in its present from make it to the ballot."
Remember to follow the money: it ALL comes out of our pockets - every penny. Then, when it is built (buses, trains, whatever), we pay 80% of operating costs. EVERYONE pays and currently about 3% of our population actually rides.
Does anyone really think that the number of riders will significantly increase because there will be a train from St. Pete to Clearwater? If there is so much demand, PSTA should add an express bus along exactly the same route that will take exactly the same amount of time and see how many people ride that bus. Then we will know before we are forced to pay $130 MILLION a year in increase sales taxes.
Yes, the bus system is failing because they cannot make it efficient and useful even though ALL capital costs are paid by taxpayers and 80% of operating costs are paid by taxpayers. Riders pay 20% of operating costs, NONE of capital costs (i.e., new buses, etc.).
We do not need a new sales tax, we need new management of PSTA.
Frederick Kann
8:31 am on Thursday, January 31, 2013
Mr. Webb fails to mention that the infrastructure necessary to operate motor vehicles is already heavily subsidized, far more than public transportation. The gas taxes and other fees do not even come close to paying for all of it. Yes on the measly 1% sales tax increase. Build it now! This area is 30 years behind the curve, largely thanks to regressive thinkers like Webb.
Jack Sprat
10:28 am on Thursday, January 31, 2013
How many people use that infrastructure? Just about everyone who goes from one place to another in a car, bus, truck, motorcycle, motorized trolley and anything else on wheels. That is what? 99.99% of the population? And much of those "heavy" subsidies are direct taxes on vehicles and fuel.
So we have a large % of the populaution paying for infrastructure that the same large % actually use. You are advocating that EVERYONE pay taxes to support a point-to-point light rail that very few will actually ride - the typical ridership on all light rail systems in the US is less than 5% of the population, yet 100% are forced to support it in some way (yes, even our tax dollars are supporting those trains).
Remember, ALL capital costs are paid by local, state and federal taxpayers - that is just about everyone. Then they still don't have enough, so they ask for a "measly" 1% local sales tax increase, which is 14% more sales tax than we currently pay. And where does it go? From downtown St. Pete to downtown Clearwater. Can we try buses on the same route, same schedule and see how many people ride?
If we get a significant number, say 100,000 per day (10% of Pinellas population), then consider ways to raise money to build a train. If we don't, the buses can be deployed to other, more useful routes.
Once a track is laid, it cannot be moved. That is a huge bet with lousy odds (using our $2 BILLION). That is four baseball stadiums!
Frederick Kann
2:02 pm on Thursday, January 31, 2013
Jack: WRONG! Everyone, whether they drive or not, pays for our bloated highway infrastructure. And once a road is built, how can IT be moved? Just build more roads and put more caers on them. The answer to everything transportation! Not! And the infrastructure is costing billions to build and maintain. Get off your butt and ride a bike or take the bus! http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-07-27/local/35237771_1_long-term-transportation-transportation-costs-transportation-committee
Jack Sprat
1:11 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
From your referred link:
“But today, for the first time, we have data showing how much failing to invest in our surface transportation system can negatively impact job growth and family budgets.”
We have about 300 Million vehicles on our roads today; that number is growing every day. We have cars, trucks, buses, motorcycles and yes, even bicycles on those roads, taking kids to soccer games, goods to consumers, people to work.
That infrastructure is "bloated" only because people who (for some reason) hate cars opine that it is so. Not true, it is what it is because people consciously decide what mode of transportation they are going to use. Trucks and buses are with us forever and they need roads. Trains don't go to grocery stores and soccer fields. Bicycles cannot deliver goods. Even electric cars need roads.
Do you really believe a 1% sales tax on 100% of the people in Pinellas county will encourage more than 3% of the people to use public transportation? Do you really believe that spending $2 BILLION will propel Pinellas county into the 21st century?
We have some of the least expensive fuel in the world. In some countries the cost of gasoline has been $10/gal for years - and they still drive cars and trucks and even buses. Govt detrmines the price of fuel much more than any corporation.
Jack Sprat
1:11 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
"Everyone, whether they drive or not, pays for our bloated highway infrastructure. And once a road is built, how can IT be moved?"
True, and please tell me what % of the population does not use surface transportation.
We also know that EVERYONE pays for public transportation, whether they use it or not. Less than 5% of the people actually use it.
Is that really fair?
Why do you hate cars?
Why do 95% of the people depend on cars? (because they can)
Frederick Kann
2:13 pm on Thursday, January 31, 2013
...and I almost forgot: Let the whining about the price of fuel begin in 3...2...1...GO! Have a nice time filling the saddle tanks on your full size, long bed, crew cab, stepside, dually, 4wd, v8 or v10 pick 'em up truck.
Cisco
6:53 pm on Thursday, January 31, 2013
Bumblehead Obama energy policies have everything to do with the price of gasoline.
Frederick Kann
1:11 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Wall Street speculators manipulate the price. The POTUS has little to do with it. Save the Fox noise talking points, Cisco.
Michael D.
1:50 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Speculators around the world manipulate the price, but are not the largest reason for oil prices. So no the president has little say, the Congress and local governments actually has move say on the price of gas through the taxation.
The consumer is the largest reason for high oil prices, the demand is outgrowing the production supply. Now it is true that the company decide how much they are going to pump, which does effect price. But with so many oil needy products, it is the consumer that is raising prices.
Babak
1:11 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Mr Webb, reading your blogs highlight just how much of a regressive thinker you are. How can you honestly make an argument against light rail? We are a highly suburbanized county and it is shameful that we don't present our citizens with transportation options like countless other cities of our size. I implore upon you to read some whitepapers on the Charlotte Lynx light rail. Light rail can only bring good to our county. If you can't deal with taxes, then perhaps a more rural county would be better suited for you. Change are inevitable, stop fighting change sir. Stop fighting the advancement of our city. I can attest after having had drive from St Pete, to Clearwater, to Largo, to Tyrone area this past weekend that driving around our county is a huge drag!!! Give me a metro or light rail or something other than US19!!!!!
Jack Sprat
7:29 am on Saturday, February 2, 2013
The Charlotte area has 1.8M population. 15,000/day ride the Lynx (7,500 actual people taking round trips), which means approximately 0.05% ride while 99.95% pay. The actual cost per ride is about $7.00 (capital and operating expenses) and riders pay $1.75 or 25% of true cost. That means the other 75% is paid for by taxpayers.
By the way...."I can attest after having had drive from St Pete, to Clearwater, to Largo, to Tyrone area this past weekend...."
There will never be a super advanced light rail from Largo to Tyrone.
Charlotte buses provide 65,000 rides/day (32,500 people) or about 2% of the population. A little less than Pinellas ridership.
Traffic congestion has not decreased to any noticeable degree. So tell me again why100% of Pinellas residents should pay an extra $130,000,000 per year in sales tax so a very small number of people can ride a train from St. Pete to Clearwater.
Rider
7:29 am on Saturday, February 2, 2013
Babak......agree about mass transit options expanding...yet totally disagree on a light rail to Clearwater......the real urgency we have in Tampa Bay is to get back and forth from Pinellas and Hillsborough.......the traffic in Pinellas is light compared to major cities and their regions......even cities with a rail line or two have substantially more traffic. US 19 is deplorable? Oh, please.....it is a pleasure to drive it compared to most thoroughfares in any major city........now, the traffic jams on the bridges....THAT is horrendous.........sorry, putting a train to Clearwater will not keep the Rays in Pinellas.......
Robert "Bobby" Saltzman
1:11 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
I must have missed the part of the blog that said this all Obamas fault.
Frederick Kann
1:11 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Tom Toles has the right idea! He could be a job creator! http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/tom-toles/post/friday-rant-waste-makes-haste-edition/2013/01/31/647a8042-6bbe-11e2-8740-9b58f43c191a_blog.html
Bulldog
1:08 pm on Sunday, February 3, 2013
Grew up in the North East where trains are used to commute to NYC by thousands everyday, still RR loses money, they needed to be bailed out with taxpayer money and are still subsidised with tax payer dollars. There is no chance this would ever be anything but another way to remove money from taxpayer pockets. They would charge additional the sales tax, then ask for more for cost overruns, and more to cover annual losses. They'll charge to park at the point of origin, charge for public transport from the destination terminal to your destination and then claim they need more money to expand the failing system. No way I'd support more government folly, let private companies build and float this boat. If there was any real chance for profit it would be done privately.
Clay Bradley
8:55 am on Monday, February 4, 2013
Sorry, I don't listen to old men who can't spell.
sparky
9:07 am on Monday, February 4, 2013
Ignorant applies to Clay Bradley with a reply not on point.
Stagebuster
12:04 pm on Monday, March 25, 2013
No more sales /penny tax increase. It never goes down.